Latest News: Read more



Discussion Forum - The Bothy - Who says the Welsh don't have a sense of humour?


Author: Don Arthurs
Posted: Wed 7th Aug 2019, 13:14
Joined: 2017
Local Group: Kent
For goodness sake that was 18 years ago, if you want to make a point find something contemporary and relevant.
Author: David Green
Posted: Fri 2nd Aug 2019, 19:31
Joined: 2003
Local Group: Dorset
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/apr/16/race.world
Author: Jeff Stevens
Posted: Thu 25th Jul 2019, 22:55
Joined: 2014
Local Group: West Yorkshire
Hi Mathew thank you for your views on this subject.
I class myself AS British which I am proud of I think the welsh are great people the ones in the LDWA are
very highly motivated proud of their groups and I enjoy mixing with them on walks.
The comment does not reflect the vast majority of Brits as you can see in the comments.after the initial post.
To Dave's credit he answered with great dignity and intelligence . I am proud that Dave is our Chair and he is doing a very good
job . Just bemused at some peoples posts.
regards Jeff
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Thu 25th Jul 2019, 10:26
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
Now I have found the forum again I can join in - was looking for a link off the website but blowed if I could find one, probably just me!

I am born English but we have lived in the heart of Wales for over 30 years, so getting there........ but the thing is, the Welsh do have a sense of humour, very much so. Unfortunately the English don't get it.

You see ALL the Welsh are proud to be Welsh, they are proud of their countryside, they are proud of their language, they are proud of their singing, they are proud to be Celts and they are very, very proud of their rugby team. There are a few English that are proud to be English, but not many, so the next best thing to not having an identity of their own is to take the **** out of their neighbours. Jealousy rules in England!!
Author: Jeff Stevens
Posted: Mon 22nd Jul 2019, 21:07
Joined: 2014
Local Group: West Yorkshire
I agree Raymond there seems to have been a lot but disguised with humor but deep down you can see it .
I dont understand the comment that bring the Welsh language and people into this.
I find this offensive and I am English so I dont know what the welsh think about this.
Author: Raymond Wilkes
Posted: Mon 22nd Jul 2019, 17:58
Joined: 2013
Local Group: West Yorkshire
I am not suggesting that dissent should be banned. Dissent is essential
But abusive posts should be in my opinion as if they are allowed they will become commponplace
Author: David Green
Posted: Sat 20th Jul 2019, 19:23
Joined: 2003
Local Group: Dorset
On the other hand, I don't have a problem with the spiteful posts either They just blow away the very values their authors pretend to represent the moment they click on 'Save'
Author: David Green
Posted: Sat 20th Jul 2019, 17:43
Joined: 2003
Local Group: Dorset
I don't have a problem with that suggestion if that's the way the LDWA wishes to deal with dissent although with nearly 2000 hits on this topic, stable doors and bolting horses spring to mind!
Author: Raymond Wilkes
Posted: Sat 20th Jul 2019, 16:39
Joined: 2013
Local Group: West Yorkshire
I think it would be good if the forum moderator removed this thread entirely as with any spiteful posts
Author: David Green
Posted: Fri 19th Jul 2019, 19:32
Joined: 2003
Local Group: Dorset
Following the last post and today's events in Pau, I have decided to replace Gee in my "Top Welshmen of our time" with DM. But of course, that doesn't change the price of fish one jot because this is not about the personalities (or indeed their personalities) however much some would like to angle it, it's about the policies being pursued. "Naturellement", this could all change in the Pyrennees tomorrow.
Author: Jeff Stevens
Posted: Wed 17th Jul 2019, 16:23
Joined: 2014
Local Group: West Yorkshire
Hi

I have met Dave Morgan and he is a genuinely nice fella. He spends a lot of his own time trying to make the LDWA better for everyone. I agree that there should be no tolerance for the comments that are clearly aimed towards him. We are all enthusiastic and motivated people, I have witnessed this first hand on many walks and have never heard anyone criticizing the time and effort that everyone behind the scenes put in to make this association what it is today.

Regards jeff
Author: Edward Short
Posted: Tue 16th Jul 2019, 8:06
Joined: 2013
Local Group: Essex & Herts
99.9 recurring, called the silent majority, would agree with you Don
Author: Don Arthurs
Posted: Tue 16th Jul 2019, 7:04
Joined: 2017
Local Group: Kent
" I freely admit (and make no apology for ) that the style was intended to provoke a response. "

I believe the technical expression, amongst users of the Interwebulator, is Trolling. It continues to amaze me that people are silly enough to feed you, though ironically I'm making the same mistake here myself.
Author: David Green
Posted: Mon 15th Jul 2019, 14:45
Joined: 2003
Local Group: Dorset
Oh No! I've just noticed that I got the Old LONE Ranger mixed up with the Old LOAN Arranger! Given the topic, almost Freudian, I would say.
Author: Julian Pursey
Posted: Mon 15th Jul 2019, 14:16
Joined: 1989
Local Group: Cornwall & Devon
All well and good, perhaps.

But I still contend it was spiteful.
Author: David Green
Posted: Mon 15th Jul 2019, 13:51
Joined: 2003
Local Group: Dorset
It seemed to me that while discussing the allocation of money for a website, the provenance of an LDWA member - be it from Wales, Outer Mongolia or Timbuktu was irrelevant.

TOTALLY AGREE! AS would almost everybody else who isn't a blind racist BUT that was the link that made the joke. Do I really have to explain this? With world class personalities like Hafpenny and Thomas and a rugby team that can thrash England at will (it seems) IMHO for a relatively small nation, the Welsh have everything going for them. I wish I could sign up! Moreover judging from the responses to my post, the only detailed and considered reply was posted by the Welshman himself. I might not agree with it but that is the fact. So yes, an apology to the Welsh is appropriate, it's the English who fall short in the humour department!

However, enough of this. I am aware of the Moderator's Rules and my post was carefully crafted to avoid personal and abusive language etc. etc. It has not been taken down (as yet) so I can only assume it passed his/her tests . I freely admit (and make no apology for ) that the style was intended to provoke a response. It was successful in this and therefore I now consider that in the words of the Old Loan Ranger, "My work here is done! Hiho Silver Away!" .............

......except, there is a quite seperate issue arising from this post that does need to be addressed and that is "How the LDWA deals with dissent". In my view, this warrants a seperate airing in the Bothy. To explore it here would be a distraction from the original topic which is the calamitous decision to go ahead with a project whose likely costs so greatly exceed the organisation's actual means!

Finally, permit me a small aside., if you will? If I could know the views of the silent majority to an accuracy of .1% then I'd have long since moved into marketing and not be wasting my time in LDWA fora!
Author: Julian Pursey
Posted: Mon 15th Jul 2019, 12:49
Joined: 1989
Local Group: Cornwall & Devon
In response to the last post:

I could be persuaded by your remarks if you can provide concrete evidence to support it.

I can't speak for 'mutterings among ourselves' but as an avid follower of the LDWA forum I think any ad hominem postings on there have always been a one way street...that is firmly directed towards members of the National Committee.

----------//--------

I made my first post on this topic because I thought it was spiteful but I also considered it unfair.

I'm always up for fun but I despise cheap laughter.

It seemed to me that while discussing the allocation of money for a website, the provenance of an LDWA member - be it from Wales, Outer Mongolia or Timbuktu was irrelevant.

Whatever it may be, I see no place for it in the LDWA.
Author: David Kearns
Posted: Fri 12th Jul 2019, 9:34
Joined: 1998
It has long been a LDWA maxim that members should never publicly complain about anything, just mutter among ourselves, unless we want to risk a load of ad hominem abuse. But "disciplinary action?" That it should come to this.
Author: Bryan Thorpe
Posted: Thu 11th Jul 2019, 20:11
Joined: 2020
Local Group: North Yorkshire
I would like to say sorry to David, M the tweet from David G is too personal and is in bad taste as well as being offensive in my mind. The NEC may not be doing everything the way I would want it but they were elected democratically in a vote in which I participated. They have a vision and are seeing it through, they are giving up their time in a manner I am not committed to giving so fair play to them.
Surely now is the time we started looking at disciplinary action where members are using aggressive, defamatory, inciting and openly hostile language. We can't allow this to go unchecked it is not what the LDWA is or should be about.
Author: Phil Bryant
Posted: Tue 9th Jul 2019, 20:23
Joined: 2008
Local Group: Mid Wales
If you want to make or read spiteful comments there are plenty of places on social media to do that sort of thing.
I've always loved that the LDWA forum was free of that. It should stay that way.
Author: Edward Short
Posted: Tue 9th Jul 2019, 20:04
Joined: 2013
Local Group: Essex & Herts
99.9% who are called the silent majority would agree with you Julian
Author: Julian Pursey
Posted: Tue 9th Jul 2019, 7:59
Joined: 1989
Local Group: Cornwall & Devon
Just wondering.....
I am the only person that finds the original post spiteful?
Author: David Morgan
Posted: Fri 5th Jul 2019, 20:57
Joined: 1994
Local Group: South Wales
Good Evening David,

And another personal slight at me. Thank-you.

I would like to think that I have a very good sense of humour and a degree of resilience too. However, in relation to your personalisation of how I am personally about to waste a quarter of a million on a new website, well you couldn't be more wrong. Any leader of any organisation has to listen to those who provide advice on how specific things where they have far more knowledge on a particular topic. In addition any committee of any note would look at the long term strategic picture of an association as opposed to waiting until the last minute and then realising that the finances are not fit for purpose. Let me articulate the reasons why to you.

Our site gets almost two million visits a year, contains some 50 sub-sites (one for each local group plus the “hundreds”) and a challenge event management system (PACER) which had some 40,000 visits over the last 100 weekend alone. It also provides secure transactional capability, membership services, an online magazine, forum provision and accommodation booking facilities as well as acting as a national repository for several thousand long distance paths, 100 annual challenge events and some 2000 local group social events per year.

So there is a lot of functionality there which has taken at least 15 years to build, with a typical annual developer spend of around £10-£20k per year - i.e. some £150-£200k in total. When the time comes to rebuild our website completely - as it eventually will because the platform is bespoke and becoming costly to maintain - we don’t want to take 15 years to do it. So that 15 years of spend will be compressed into 1-2 years, hence giving us a big one off bill. That suggests a cost of around £200k for a complete rebuild. And it’s worth remembering, by way of comparison, that the Ramblers spend some £300k every year on their web and IT services.

All this would be essentially just to upgrade what we currently have, and doesn’t consider new step out functionality. If we wanted to build some form of sophisticated app, for example, all the app programmers we have spoken to tell us that this can’t be done for under £5k, and £30k may not be beyond the realms of possibility. So we need to factor this possible cost in, too.

But the bigger issue will be on deciding what exactly we want our online services to do for us, and on what content and functionality we will need to achieve those objectives. Only once we have nailed that down will we be able to commission a developer to build it. Creating this detailed specification may be something that LDWA volunteers could do - but it’s a really tough job and would all need completing in 12 months not 15 years. So we may need to buy in professional help to do this, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect this could cost as much as £50-£100k on top of the web developer fee.

We may be able to do all this a lot cheaper if we abandon large swathes of content in the new website. However, we won’t know this until we are well into the project. It is far more prudent to anticipate and start saving for a costly project now, rather than hope we can do it cheaply only to find we can’t afford it once it’s too late and the project is unstoppable. If it turns out we have over-budgeted, we will be in the fortunate position of having a surplus which can be ploughed back into the Association for alternative projects. If we start saving now, when the project is probably still 3-5 years off, our annual cash generation target will be modest and won’t place a burden on members. If we leave it all to the last minute, we may be forced to borrow to fund it, or to impose a significant and very unwelcome levy on our members.

When the time comes to rebuild the website (because it won't be me as Chair of our LDWA), and once we have got the specification nailed down, I imagine that the NEC at the time would require us to issue a tender document and invite several potential suppliers to bid for the business. In this way, we will have a much better idea of the true scope and cost of the project, and can assure our members that we are getting the best possible value for their money.

We’re always looking for help in the IT team and indeed on the NEC. There are vacancies arising next year, certainly the IT Officer role, the Publicity Officer and the Long Distance Paths rep and perhaps even the Chair. Perhaps your very useful knowledge could be used to further enhance, modernise and secure the future of the LDWA.

Regards,

David Morgan
Author: David Green
Posted: Fri 5th Jul 2019, 14:11
Joined: 2003
Local Group: Dorset
A few days ago my eye was caught by the following BBC headline:
"Omid Djalili causes anger with Welsh language joke"

Apparently the comedian had posted a picture of a road sign for Nantgaredig and the National Botanic Gardens of Wales, bearing the translation Gardd Fotaneg Genedlaethol.
Next to that he had tweeted: "There are worse things than being Welsh, dyslexic & having a terrible stutter. But not many."

According to the BBC this provoked an angry outburst from some Welsh speakers who didn't see the funny side at all. How dyslexics and stutterers felt about it was not reported.
Anyway this got me wondering whether there was any evidence of a sense of humour emanating from this ancient land shrouded in Celtic mysery?
Then it came back to me, the childhood memories of battling with an old valve radio to catch some scraps of the Goon Show, the hero of which, "Neddy Seagoon", was played by none other than the great Harry Secombe, a very funny Welshman especially when he sang, which he did rather too often for my taste. Are their others I have overlooked? Surely there must be. What about that twerp who used to appear on stage hugging a huge blow-up leek. When he shouted 'Oggy!Oggy!Oggy!, we all yelled back 'Oy!Oy!Oy". Cracked me up that did!

So that's probably it then, only two Welsh with a sense of humour. Oh, unless you count the guy who's just about to waste nearly a quarter of a million of LDWA cash on a new website. I don't! But then I may be the only one who just doesn't get the joke.

This website uses cookies

To comply with EU Directives we are informing you that our website uses cookies for services such as memberships and Google Analytics.

Your data is completely safe and we do not record any personally identifiable information.

Please click the button to acknowledge and approve our use of cookies during your visit.

Learn more about the Cookie Law