Latest News: Read more



Discussion Forum - The Bothy - Grouping


Posted: Mon 9th Oct 2006, 19:45
Joined: 2003
I've just completed my 3rd overnight run/walk (3 Forests Way) and agree about entrants naturally grouping, especially night. I certainly felt much happier being with others at night as re-reading a narrative route description to someone else where there's uncertainty almost always seems to produce the right interpretation and thus the chances of getting "lost" are minimised.

When one of the group I was with slowed they said for me to go on to catch the (visible) next group which I did - so some fluidity in grouping is desirable (though on those Scout events where it is compulsory maybe this should be allowed only at checkpoints, but allowed I think it should be.

As to competitive, I think the atmosphere would be changed for the worse if overt competition were to be introduced. That said, I've seen some very purposeful walkers and runners on many LDWA events and whilst they may not be being competitive, they are certainly at the top end of being focussed!

Cheers,

Simon
Author: Mike Buckley
Posted: Tue 19th Sep 2006, 0:18
Joined: 1989
Local Group: Heart of England
Simon, a similar event (50ml) with teams pre-arranged is the Tour de Trigs also run by Scouts. The Hike groups on the day but you were put with people who had done the same distance and time as you. Maybe they slowed down. LDWA events are not competitive but don't group people, as far as I know, although walkers tend to group instinctively at night. Would grouping on the 100 have made a difference to the tragic event on Windy Gyle? To group or not to group that is the question, and should events be competitive, perish the thought. Maybe a committee member reading this might like to ask the first question this Saturday. Aob?
Author: Garfield Southall
Posted: Mon 18th Sep 2006, 23:03
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
Oh Simon, I love the adoption of the term "groupees" !

Garfield
Posted: Mon 18th Sep 2006, 17:15
Joined: 2003
A topic after my own heart. I did the Longmynd Hike for the first time last year and knowing about the 3 person grouping and it's effect on the final result, worked hard to get to the grouping checkpoint. Once there I met and agreed a "Run and Walk" strategy with a Woman runner who I'd not met before. We chatted briefly about our own levels of experience and expected pace and on the basis of this, decided to group. We then waited for the next person to group with.

We got two guys who also agreed to our "Run and Walk" strategy, but then hugely annoyingly, they never did more than a walk. At the first post-grouping checkpoint, The woman runner and I checked in and turned to go to see our fellow groupees sat down with a cuppa. I think they sensed our frustration as they finished them quickly.

They wouldn't even break into a trot on the downhills. Into Woodgate Farm check point off Corndon Hill and ready to go, only to find our Groupees studying Saturday's Footy results that someone had helpfully pinned to the Checkpoint Wall.

My point is NOT about that they were slow, just that if you get stuck with people whose pace is not what they say it is, then you are stuck. It was hugely frustrating and added a substantial length of time to the event for us both.

On the other hand, I CAN see the need for grouping if conditions require it (no body with anything other than an Oatesian outlook would expect Antartic explorers to travel alone). Where organisers feel especially strongly about this, should the Groupings be enforced through pre-entered teams, then at least you can only blame yourself for your teams mates rather than having to rely upon chance groupings?

Simon
Author: Garfield Southall
Posted: Wed 6th Sep 2006, 23:05
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
I love walking at night. Another reason, perhaps, for prefering not to group. H & I walk for ages in peace and quiet, just listening to the night.... watching the dawn gradually colour the sky, the pink glow on the fell sides and the eventual dawn chorus...

This years hundred was magical for its dawn - light by 3.30am.

Whilst groping would spoil the effect, it's great to share it with someone who understands...

Garfield
Author: John King
Posted: Wed 6th Sep 2006, 22:21
Joined: 2002
I spend many winter nights especially when there is a full moon walking or running with my dog on the Cumbrian Fells, and to be honest from my point of view being groped would seriously screw up my evening.
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Wed 6th Sep 2006, 21:14
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
I also spend time alone at night on the remote Cambrian mountains - hoping to be groped by a lone female walker.

Perhaps our paths will cross one night Janet !!!!

Matt.
Author: Janet Pitt-Lewis
Posted: Wed 6th Sep 2006, 19:05
Joined: 1993
Local Group: Marches
I think that being groped is a fairly remote concern on any walk. I enjoy walking alone at night and take the view that the chances of any mad rapist stalking the Cambrian mountains at 2a.m. in search of a lone female walker is pretty low. On the otherhand, the chances of meeting a vicious farm dog ...
Author: Garfield Southall
Posted: Wed 6th Sep 2006, 9:43
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
Maybe the 100's have the right attitude. You group if you feel like it. This has always seemed a sensible approach. - Garfield
Author: Garfield Southall
Posted: Tue 5th Sep 2006, 22:04
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
I guess it makes what Julian said about people keeling over during the Fellsman sound reasonable if participants are checkpointing in pubs ! ( I think there are only two on that beastie - Chapel-le-dale and Dent ?)

I also accept what he said about ladies dashing through the night and being accosted by undesirables. Scary thought.

On one particular Fellsman one of the party gained more and more blisters and slowed right down. He was absolutely determined to finish ... but at 1.5 mph. Frustrating, and it seemed impolite to suggest I should hop on a faster-moving team. Garfield
Author: Ian Koszalinski
Posted: Tue 5th Sep 2006, 20:55
Joined: 2004
Local Group: High Peak
i'm not convinced that you had to convince him, only needs the wafting smell of the barmaids apron
Author: Merrian Lancaster
Posted: Tue 5th Sep 2006, 17:08
Joined: 1996
Local Group: Beds, Bucks and Northants
We were worried that we'd be grouped with folk who might not want a pub stop. Fortunately, we convinced Dave Sheldon to be in our gang by bribing him with a pint in the Angler's Rest, Miller's Dale (Barnsley Bitter and Storm Ale Force - rather appropriate we thought). Shellers got the next round in the Quiet Woman, Earl Sterndale (Marstons Bitter).
Author: Julian Brown
Posted: Tue 5th Sep 2006, 11:44
Joined: 1998
Local Group: Staffordshire
There are pros and cons.

Sometimes it slows you down for the reasons mentioned above and also because some folk are faster / slower at night, might be exhausted etc. Can be frustrating I agree.

On the other hand there's a few safety issues, on the Fellsman people have been known to keel over (one incident on Fleet Moss springs to mind) and if on their own it's anyone's guess what might have happened, on the Bullock Smithy route there've been a few unsavoury incidents on the Middlewood Way and canal over the years (albeit not related to the event) and I suppose I felt happier that the missus (all 7 stone of her) was with others (not that she can't' take care of herself).

I have a go at the High Peak Marathon and it would be very foolish to organise this event for anything other than teams, similarly the 4 inns, with its history. I agree the Long Mynd 50 is a bit strange though, and the group you're with can affect how long it takes you. But they get more entrants than any other event of similar distance so they must be doing something right.

Eventually I suppose you have to accept the rules of each event as they are and vote with your feet if you don't agree with them.
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Tue 5th Sep 2006, 9:14
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
I did the Long Myndd 50 a few years back, where the same applies, everyone is grouped after 18.00 hrs (or thereabouts) for the night section. As those at the front end are actually competeing for various shilds/trophies, it pretty much halves the race distance.

The runners took off like stink from the start (I was puzzled by their speeds), it later dawned on me that it was basically a 25 mile race to be grouped with 2 other fast runners. The positions at 25 would almost certainly be the finish positions, unless you had one weak member in the group. One of our groups knee went - we lost 1 - 11/2 hours overnight.

I don't like the idea from an participants point of view, and may not do that event again, but from an organisers viewpoint I can understand it. I requested it when I put on the overnight Blue Moon walk, though that was slightly different circumstances to normal. Matt.
Author: Garfield Southall
Posted: Mon 4th Sep 2006, 23:25
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
I do not like being grouped. (groped, yes, but not grouped)

It's the reason why I'll probably not do a Fellsman again and, after this weekend, why I'll not do the Bullock Smithy again. I prefer to go at my own pace - whatever I decide that is. I also rarely stop for more than two minutes at checkpoints, prefering to grab some butties and head out again. I get impatient waiting for my temporary partners to do a full pack and unpack of rucksack, have two cups of tea and watch the telly.

I've not been forced to group on the BS before, even though it's in the rules, but the weather this weekend made the organisers enforce the rule. (My colleagues ended up being three very friendly scouts)

Maybe I should take up running, then I could be back before dark ! - Garfield

This website uses cookies

To comply with EU Directives we are informing you that our website uses cookies for services such as memberships and Google Analytics.

Your data is completely safe and we do not record any personally identifiable information.

Please click the button to acknowledge and approve our use of cookies during your visit.

Learn more about the Cookie Law