I take a guess at runners wanting to join an event or more them not bothering with anything else?

One way or another, there has been discussion and argument within the LDWA for years, over both the composition of its membership and what might be done to augment it. I would doubt if the ratio of men to women in the current 'paid up' membership, as revealed recently by John Sparshatt, has changed much in thirty years. There are plenty of women who clearly enjoy both taking part in LDWA events and in helping to organise them. I have trotted round after one in particular for an awfully long and happy time. But what has intrigued me and others for years, is why the 'paid up' membership remains so low. Folk seemingly come and go at a truly alarming rate.

Having spent a wild and windy afternoon digging into the archives, I find that STRIDER for December 1983 reported that 'the latest membership number issued' was 5,900 but in his editorial comment, Chris Steer speculated that "the (individual) membership was now running at about 3,500".

Coming forward at ten year intervals, we find the corresponding figures to be:

December 1992 ...........Individual ....... 4,967..........Latest number .........14,125
December 2002 ...........Individual ....... 5,445 ........ Latest number ........ 22,603
December 2011........... Individual ....... 6,201 ........ Latest number ........ 31,703

Of course 'family membership' generally adds another 1,000 or so to the individual totals but what has happened to the thousands of both men and women who have seemingly joined the LDWA for a while and then simply gone away? Surely that's a more significant and worrying point for discussion than the simple ratio of men to women on events?

Damn,

I lost my password before Christmas and have been unable to post, and now I have access again I'm too late to join in. Which is probably just as well as I'm not over pc. Matt.

"but by far the thing I love most about the LDWA events are the PEOPLE, men and women, who organize, take part and support the events (including my own wife who stays home looking after our kids)".

That is the spirit of the LDWA Ben. Enjoy and include your family when you can.

Can't say I know of this Bobby Thompson, David, but vaguely recollect one such name who maybe played for the Wolves in the 50's during those early TV classics against Honved etc.

Anyway, let's get more women on East Yorks Filey Flyer of 7th January - roll up, roll up!!

This is for Ben and I think it will put things in context. Back in the days when Bobby Thompson ruled Newcastle and I scived off from Whickham View SM school (John Marley as it is now) My Aunts thought Bobby Thompson was disgusting because he said "waister" in public, those same Aunts could scare the living daylights out of the SAS when they got annoyed. Your right and I suppose we all have to change and it is difficult bringing up bairns with out being too heavy handed.

Well I seem to have opened a can of worms here. First let me say that I too cannot stand Chubby Brown and his types, he unfunny and just dam right to rude for me.

Lets lighten this thread up a bit with a copy of a letter that John Batham sent my a bit down.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=5689

If anybody on here dosn't find it funny, then maybe take a look at how you view life.

David, I'd rather not have to divulge my career profile on this open forum, so if theres anyway you could get in touch direct, I think we'd probably both understand better the point we are tryng to make, but lets just say I have seen a massive change in its, and my attitude to other people, which just brings me back again to the fact that there are things that are said whilst we are sat behind the computer, that wouldn't be said by letter, telephone or face to face. I did start my career in 1979 in Newcastle just as Chubby Brown was starting out so as a teenager was a huge fan, but to be honest have grown a touch tired of him (Ditto Bernard Manning, Jim Davidson) and think their style, and my old fart taste in comedy, are best left behind . I am helping bring up three young kids (all under 7) so my LDWA events, when I can get a chance to do them, are precious to me. I live about 15 mins from the Black Mountains so can get to fantastic walking areas easy, but by far the thing I love most about the LDWA events are the PEOPLE, men and women, who organize, take part and support the events (including my own wife who stays home looking after our kids). I only see and experience great camaradarie on the events so didn't expect I'd ever get caught up in an electronic soap box argument. I have a great time walking with my youngest daughter up to Hay Bluff who is now convinced that one day she might make it up Pen Y Fan and who knows after that, but she certainly doesnt have to plump for staying home in the kitchen. Any way, I'm back to work tomorrow and will have no time for forum stuff, so Happy New Year and thanks for the debating!

John we hear a lot of the open society we are supposedly living in and how we must all have freedom of expression but this freedom seems to come with the proviso that we don’t hurt the feeling of this one and that one and so on.
So in fact in this enlightened era, we have less freedom of speech and expression than we did in the seventies.
Oh yes we can have Chubby Brown and his foul mouthed utterings and every Tom, Dick and Mary can F and Blind on the telly but we must not listen to Bernard Manning in case he says what a lot of people still think.
Must get off the soap box, I only looked in on the forum to find an nice easy twenty to try out Uncle Arthur Ritus

I'm intrigued by the men in black uniforms about to take us away - is this Syria? Also, what are these jokes about white wedding dresses, and then the LDWA wife? tantalising...

I thought I had a couple of mild banter barks at Ian, not thinking he would see them as rabied bites, sorry mate. That's the problem with email or these texting sites: we write down stuff we would never have put in more measured communications like snail mail or face to face.

However, us older folks have this habit of dismissing our "jokes" against females/ethnics/french/europhiles or minorities as pure fun and only objectionable in the eyes of the pc fascists. Surely not true - many of us have grown up since those sitcoms of the 70's, haven't we?

Simon you and David K have hit the nail on the head, this whole site has been too PC for years. Ben did you ever do time in the forces?. Ian please stand up for your rights and demand plain gloves, they are so much kinder on the hands.

But ben what about the opinion of people who did find It amusing and in place
?. Maybe that's why not many people post on the forum , it could be taken as a little too pc ! And people are wary incase they offend. I think we all need to get a grip on things and if u don't like the post then stop reading it and appreciate others might . I think an earlier post regarding families is probably right in a lot of cases

Neither am I offended, but the point I have attempted to make is that this is a widely read forum where we all have different tastes in humour. One of the hardest events I have done in recent years was the Abbey Cwm Hir Christmas Cracker 2010 where there was sometimes thigh deep snow on the route. For a large part of the day, I walked/jogged with a lady called Janet Pitt-Lewis (apologies for the name drop). There's no way I would have joked that she should be at home in the kitchen or doing anything other than what she enjoys most., especially as she was breaking track through the snow for me and a mate for most of the day! So again, my point is there is a time and a place for this humour. So I don't think for a minute Ian was being sexist, but just the wrong place for the joke. Incidentally, one of the funniest things I've seen on TV in recent years was the Top Gear Caravan holiday, where they clearly hate caravanners..and I have to confess that I'm a member of the Caravan Club, but defnately saw that as humour.

Well, I am female and not the least bit offended - I was brought up to be thick skinned - sticks and stones and all that...My take on the few number of women in the LDWA - well most of my female friend in their 20's, 30's and 40's are nuturing kids, which prevents them from going out regularly for a whole days walk, and a 50 or 100mile overnighter would be a definate no no...can you imagine the emotional pressure if you were working during the week and then at the weekend were out walking all day, farming the kids off on someone else again? You may be called a bad mother....I agree it could be the man stopping at home with the kids while the wife is out walking, but in life it is generally the other way round - woman at home......I agree there are exceptions but life's stereotypes still exist out there.

I guess as a woman once you hit your 50's and 60's and the kids are living their own lives, you can take walking back up again guilt free, but it's very difficult for most women of my age (30 something) with kids......that's why I have horses instead of kids :-)

Well if this reply had been done on paper, I'd be knee deep in thrown away paper by now. My reply was going to be so long it would have made War & Peace look like a short story. When I make posts on this or any forum I post from the heart, and more times then not I don't known what I'm going to post or how the post will end until I get there. So lets get started.................

Dear Eileen ask's why not many women are members of our club?

Well Eileen I think it's just a fact of life and the way I see it, most women would run a mile if there was asked to walk over fields or moors. (as most men would be as well) But David Hammond makes a very true and good point. The women of the LDWA at present and in the past have made this club what it is. Take the East Yorkshire Group for one. If it wasn't for our female members and the wife's of our members, our club would be no way as strong as it is.

Ben Cooley brings up about females in Afghanistan, Well my answer to that is............ If people take the Queen's shilling and are trained up to do a job in the theatre of war then why should we be surprised by women doing their job alongside males.

When I made my post, I did it thinking that Eileen would jump back at me with both barrels, and it was ment as a little light hearted fun.

Now let's get down to the second line in the second post made by John Batham.

After thinking about it and going from anger to amusement I have decided to make no comment to John's post, but I would like to make request of John if I may. A request that I was going to make the next time I met up with him but by John making that post it prompts me to make it on here..................


John, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sorry but I've deleted it myself as don't think it's right for me to say it on here, and I will say it face to face when I see him next. All I will say on the matter is..........-------------------------------------------------- Sorry but I've deleted that as well.


Anyhow the wife is looking at me with my pink marigolds in one hand and the loo bush in the other and I think see want's me to get on with the housework. Bye for now.


Ian.

Well this is getting intresting........ 2 blasthems and naughty swear words sexist and
demeaning remarks !!!. It looks like you may have answerd your post on 19 nov . Ian :-). Pesonally Iiked the injection of humour and it should be taken in the manner it was given ,. It reminds me of the joke why are wedding dresses white.........

Making jokes is a mistake nowadays; there'salways some stony-faced guardian of public morality out there, waiting for something to be offended by. It's a small step from a mild reprimand on the LDWA website to men in black uniforms arriving at dawn to take you away.

Bloody hell Ian things must be getting bad in the LDWA if you are under the cosh as well.

By h*ll I've just looked into the forum............. I cannot and will not reply tonight, as I've been out for a walk and a drink. First lesson of posting on the internet........... Do not drink and post ;-0

But to be honest my post was ment as a tongue in cheek post, as most on here would have taken it.

But I will reply in full tomorrow. Must dash wife tells me I have to wash the pots.

ian.

John you may not be aware of it but females have never been abused in the LDWA, in fact just the opposite. If it had not been for the strong leadership of certain female members on the National committee and full backing of the wifes /partners, the LDWA could have disappeared long before you were a member and females have always been among the top 10% of our strongest walkers. It is a poor organisation that can not take the Mick out of it's self, I hope that never happens with the LDWA. By the way did you hear the one about the LDWA wife and her husband on their wedding anniversary; ah well you probably wouldnt appreciate that one

Not sure who the trout and who the snapper in this fishing analogy. Can we expect the women to riposte with embroidery anecdotes. The point is that abuse of females was unacceptable 20 years ago and apologetic jokes about it is not acceptable now even with nudge-nudge tickles in the ribs.

Nice one Ian you cast your line and caught an old Trout and a young Snapper. Pity the WRAC were disbanded.

Ian writes to promote response I think. Best to ignore his more more radical posts. I think he has a soft heart though which is more important.

Don't be too hard on Ian, he's from Hull and the Swinging Sixties didn't get there until 1989. Men are still men and the women appreciate it!

Ian - Not quite true mate, there are a lot of women in Afghanistan right now putting their backsides on the line. Am sure that was meant as a joke, but probably best save it for the office guys. Incidentally, when I first did a Karrimor Mountain Marathon in 1990, the majority of entrants were beardy, middle-aged fell runners from up north, now you will see many more women entrants and much younger guys too. So hopefully we are moving on a bit into the 21st century

Because the women are where they should be, at home doing the housework. But don't tell my wife I said that. ;-)

Thanks John and best wishes to you and family for Christmas and New Year!

I predict in the future more female walkers on events and even on the 100 event. I think the ratio will even out. Damn! Competition.

But I mean really, good!

Hi Eileen, of current members 4789 are male, 1593 are female and 1085 family members so it is not surprising that men outweigh the females on events and hundreds. I have noticed that the LDWA is attracting more females on group social walks but that is only anecdotal information. Best Wishes for Christmas and the New Year. John

And what is the ratio of male members to female members on the LDWA anyway?

I find that that there are often more males to females on events. And on the 100 challenge the men outweigh the female eventers. Why is that?

I'm not complaining mind you! I am curious.